Interview with Adam Palmeter: Artist and Comedian

Hey Adam,

First off thank you for taking the time to get involved in this interview for our readers.

I first saw you when you MC’d the Chiang Mai SEO conference and we have briefly spoken at that event. I was super impressed, you’re a funny and entertaining guy, the perfect antidote for presenting what can be quite a dry and nerdy subject!

Since checking out some clips of your stand-up online I found out you also produce very unique art that’s been used in everything from paintings to toilets.

But that’s not all, just last week I discovered you actually have a book too!

So, I am very excited to find out more about your story, a guy who also has a super cool first name too. Thanks again Adam – let’s jump straight into this with my first question.

Can you give us a little background information and your back story? For example, where you’re from, where you grew up.

I’m from Syracuse, NY but left when high school and I “broke up”. I have since lived in NYC, Seoul, Brooklyn, Ho Chi Minh City, and have spent the last two years on the run around the world. In 2010 I moved to Seoul, Korea for a teaching position where I also rather quickly became a beatboxer for a hip-hop improv comedy group called the Space Rhyme Continuum. In July of that year, we were the final act in the Stand-Up Seoul monthly comedy show that lead me to start wiring jokes and performing stand-up comedy.

After three years in Seoul, I moved back to Brooklyn to pursue comedy and painting full-time. I would create and sell artwork on the street and at night do stand-up. It didn’t work out great. While I was on stage a lot and began producing several shows, the painting wasn't paying the bills as I hoped it would. Off to Saigon!

I took another teaching position while producing comedy shows, art exhibitions, and attending Dynamite Circle conferences. After figuring out ways to perform stand-up, paint murals, and work on my books, I’ve been fortunate enough to have a network that allows me to travel and work and perform at events such as Chiang Mai SEO and DCBKK.

You’re both an artist and a comedian. What came first, and which one do you find you spend most of your time?

Art came before comedy. I had some good friends who were very talented painters (still are) who would let me paint with them when they let me crash on their couch while I was on college break. They were my first inspiration and really made the artist's lifestyle appealing.

After college, I was teaching in Brooklyn near Pratt University, a prestigious art school. Students were constantly throwing away supplies and canvas so I began bringing trash home (which roommates love!) and began painting in my spare time.

A couple of years later, I had my first exhibition in a bar in Brooklyn, which I couldn't attend due to a back injury. LIFE!

Coming up on my ten years of stand-up, I try to write every day, and have several different notebooks for different steps in my writing process. It's hard to say which takes up more time, as physically the art takes longer but stand up ends becoming a 24-hour mindset. Everyday conversations can be an extension of comedy and there's not much of an “off” switch, for better or worse (waaaaay fuckin’ worse).

Sneak peek of Adam Palmeter in action from 2017

I am a keen fan of British comedians, in particular, Jimmy Carr, who is known for his one-liner put-downs when being heckled (often referring to their mums!). Being a stand-up being heckled comes with the job, how do you deal with hecklers in any particular approach?

Generally, if a heckler says something, I’m pretty on top of it and can make a quick joke about them or the comment, but I really don't let it throw me off and over-address them. I like to keep it moving unless I see a clear path to something really funny on the fly.

Usually, they want attention, fine, people need attention, especially drunk ones. But if they get too familiar sometimes you make them look like a clown.

If it comes to that, then I'll extend a quick olive branch in the name of professionalism and move on with my show. If a comedian goes too hard on a heckler, you seem aggressive, so it's better just to diffuse those situations with a light heart, then you are simply more likable to the rest of the audience and will just add to a better show experience for everyone.

You spend a lot of time traveling around the world both doing stand-up comedy and painting murals and artwork. Where do you most find inspiration and are most influenced?

Two sides of the same coin, really. I get to meet local people running businesses, schools, shops, offices, bars, barbershops, tattoo shops, restaurants, cafes, etc. And I get to paint their walls while creating relationships with these people. Work leads to other work so involving myself with these people I meet around the world accesses several different networks.

Same with comedy.

Luckily, if I'm in a new city meeting the local stand-up comedians, there's a good chance I'm hanging out with the funniest people in that city, and getting international perspectives from the comedians as well as studying the humor and joke styles really helps me write more international jokes more efficiently.

Really both of these end up feeding each other in this lifestyle.

I'm very fortunate to have a business that forces me to meet new people constantly. I really can’t express enough how important networking is to the success I’ve had at curating the life I enjoy.

When I check out your Facebook page you do seem to paint an awful lot of toilets. How many is it now and what’s with the stall painting fetish?

Haha, well, it began as a city-wide art installation in Saigon, Vietnam entitled “Adam Palmeter In Stalls”.

I figured doing a series of abstract murals in some of the most well-known restaurants, clubs, and bars in the city would get me a little attention as well as getting to practice painting in unconventional places.

It's a unique space that people interact alone and in an intimate way.

Everyone has the same reaction: they walk the bathroom stall, see my art, say “huh”, then take off their pants.

Not sure if it's a fetish, but there’s certainly an interesting feeling of power that my art is around a lot of exposed private parts. Not sure how many people pissed, did drugs, or made out with someone next to a Banksy, but I'm pretty sure I'm ahead. Lol. “A head”.

How do you get your artist and comedy gigs? Is it word of mouth or do you actively put yourself out there?

I have a lot of international contacts from the last several years of globe-trotting so it's good to be able to reach out for gigs wherever I am. However, sometimes there is no English comedy where I am, so I will find the ex-pat scene / digital nomad Facebook groups, find a venue, promote, and put on a show myself. Sometimes a couple of people will do an open mic spot, and sometimes it's just me for an hour or so.

Same for art, I hit the Facebook groups or sometimes walk around with my bag of paint and find places myself, either for money or just for free because I think it would be a good place for a mural. Usually, I show them my Instagram, and people are generally pretty receptive to free art.

7. Your painting style is really unique and has thought this would work really well on merchandise. Have you thought of going the e-commerce route? There are plenty of guys that can help you out with SEO and paid traffic 😉 (psst…a few may even sell you some links…)

Yea, I was half-pursuing that a couple of years ago but lost focus despite certain things as I was focusing on my books. Perhaps I can revive business with the designs, I’m open to ideas contact me (details below)!

So, what's with the buffalo shop?

My family has all relocated to Buffalo, NY so when I am visiting family I create Buffalo skylines, hats, vintage hand saws, and digital designs. Kind of a long ball game and seeing what works but I love Buffalo. Had an art show I've been very inspired by that city so much with its vibrant art and comedy scene so it's always fun painting Buffalo-inspired work there.

I am keen to know more about your book, “TeeLee and the Opportuni-tree” a business book aimed at kids. What inspired you to write this and what’s it about?

About 6 months ago, I self-published the first in a series of children’s books entitled TeeLee and the OPPORTUNI-TREE (available now on Amazon!). It’s an introduction for young children to the concepts of business, entrepreneurship and the opportunities that they can provide.

My cousin Keith Ginsburg is a financial advisor who, years ago, came to me saying there was really nothing out there helping young kids to create the foundations for financial literacy.

He works with people all the time who lack basic financial literacy and as a father, was concerned that there are so few resources available that help strengthen the financial skills of the next generations. Using that as a starting point and having been a teacher for so long, I wanted to write a book that could be used as a valuable educational resource. I wanted to create something that would inspire children to think and take action, create their own opportunities while building skills, confidence, and experience through a business.

The book is brightly colored and animated in a very kid-friendly way, however, the concepts are applicable to up to 4th grade.

In my experience as a teacher, young kids love books that are attractive and ask to be read them more for the visual experience, but using this book as a vehicle to simply discuss the businesses that are all around them gets kids thinking about these concepts at an early age.

It really helps establish a mindset at an early age.

It's my hope that this sparks interest and understanding in these young readers so they can have a better understanding of the world around them. A world that they are already very much a part of. When a child spends a dollar on a slice of pizza, they should understand what happens to that dollar and how it moves through an economy, an economy of all types of businesses, an economy that they can be a part of.

The TeeLee and OPPORTUNE-TREE series is a teacher trying to add value to classrooms even if I'm not in them. I’ve sent several copies to teachers who have already found their own ways to create lesson plans and get their students excited about starting their own businesses.

Honestly, as cliche as it sounds, that's what makes it worth it. If I can get the teachers excited, they can get the kids excited and I’m been overwhelmed with the responses I’ve gotten from teachers and parents alike.

What’s next Adam? You have many talents, so I am keen to know what’s next on the horizon.

Stay the course!

I’m hard at work on the next two books, painting lots of walls, performing comedy and have no real complaints.

Always looking for new walls, marketing/SEO advice, or other conferences around the world that might need a comedian to emcee. SO, if any of your audience might be in to what I’m doing, or just want to say hi, you can visit my website or contact me directly through FB Instagram.

I’ll be there for CMSEO2020!!!!

Hey Sofie,

We first contacted each other when you found my blog reviewing the annual Chiang Mai SEO event. You were deciding whether you wanted to attend, and, in the end, you did, and we met up in person.

After chatting I found out that you run a website that gives independent travelers advice from practical advice to detailed trip itineraries. With first-hand knowledge of the places, you write about I was keen to find out more about your lifestyle and how this got started.

Leaving the 9 to 5 lifestyle behind you now run this website full-time and enjoy a completely digital nomad lifestyle.

Let’s jump straight into the questions – thanks again for your time today Sofie.

Can you give us some background on yourself? Where were you born, education and what work you have done before.

Sure! I was born in the city of Leuven in Belgium but grew up in a small town between Leuven and the capital of Brussels.

I have a bachelor’s in Literature and Linguistics, a Master’s in Western Literature, and a Master’s in Cultural Management. Basically, I always knew I wanted to do “something with writing”. After graduating, I got a research job at the Belgian Press Agency Belga and when my contract ended there after about 16 months, I switched to go work for an international publishing house as a marketing coordinator.

In August 2012 I launched the travel blog WonderfulWanderings.com which became my full-time job at the start of 2015 and I’ve just launched a travel influencer vetting agency last January as well.

I am curious to get your feedback on the Chiang Mai SEO conference. What was an experience and do you think it will be on your annual calendar to attend?

I actually already have my ticket for this year, so the experience was certainly a good one. I loved the diversity of the talks but for me, the real value was in the networking I got to do during the breaks and at the evening events.

As I use SEO to drive traffic to my blog, it was interesting for me to talk to people whose business is SEO, rather than people for whom SEO is a tool to market their business with.

You’re a true location independent digital nomad running a successful website aimed at independent travelers looking for advice. How did you first get into travel writing?

I wasn’t happy with the kind of writing I got to do at my then job and was telling my parents how the kind of job I had always thought I wanted to be had turned out to be not so great when they suggested I’d start a hobby project.

I loved to travel and I loved writing so I just put those two together.

It was purely a starter as a hobby but I did quickly realize the business potential of what I was doing as so I started to educate myself on digital marketing and slowly turned that hobby into a full-time income earner.

Working independently without a boss is for most people the dream lifestyle. When did you realize you can ditch a full-time job for traveling and living on this?

I don’t remember the exact moment, but I think it was in the first year of starting my blog. Companies were contacting me for collaborations and through my research, I’d found out about people who were already doing this full-time and making a living out of it.

When I quit my job, I actually wasn’t making close to a minimum wage yet, but I couldn’t keep doing both either.

I was close to a burn-out and had to make a decision. That decision to give it a year and then evaluate. I honestly thought I’d have to go back to finding a job after that year, but I never did. Best decision I’ve ever made.

The pros of being location independent and well popularised but what are the negatives from living the digital nomad lifestyle?

I’ve only truly started this lifestyle in January in the sense that I’ve left my home base then but I have been traveling around 20 times a year for quite a few years now and I think traveling a lot and working for yourself is the biggest downside is that it can get lonely.

It can get lonely having to make all of the decisions by yourself. It can get lonely that the people you most connect with are scattered all over the world. It can get lonely that as soon as you find a community you feel like you could belong to, you “have” to leave again.

There are lots of ways to connect to people on the road, both in a personal and in a business sense, but the nature of being nomadic and also just living a life of travel makes it so that every meaningful hello tends to come with a goodbye.

Do you plan content out meticulously or do you tend to be more spontaneous?

I’ve always used a content calendar, but I don’t put content out as frequently as I used to simply because I already have hundreds of articles and those require quite a lot of work to update as well.

Aside from that, 95% of my content is experience-based which means that new content comes from new travels and I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t always want to write about everything anymore.

The pressure to do so is there but for example, when I was in Chiang Mai, I was there a week before the conference started and I made the decision not to write about my time there and simply enjoy meeting people instead of running around trying to do all the touristy things.

What’s a typical day in the life of Sofie?

I’d say I have two “typical” days: the ones when I’m traveling for work and the ones when I’m staying put working.

When I’m staying put somewhere to get work done. I’ll get up, have breakfast, and open my laptop straight away. I’ll have a snack and lunch while working and I’ll carry on until about 3 p.m. Then, I go for a walk and I work out. I usually do some admin and light work after and then social activities in the evening.

When I’m traveling for work, I have my checklist of things I need to see and do and I’m usually out from breakfast until dinner time. I’ll then do some light work before bed in the evening but it’s usually things like email or going through the photos of the day.

While I keep my mornings for work when I’m not traveling for a job, my afternoons are pretty flexible though. I might also meet someone for coffee then or if I have calls, I’ll schedule them in the afternoon as well.

How are you looking to grow your site? Do you focus mostly on content writing or are you looking to go into more social, or both?

I used to do more social when I started but I honestly don’t enjoy it that much. I enjoy doing Instagram stories as they give me a spontaneous way to connect with my audience and I love the loyal follower base I have on Facebook, but I don’t feel like social media comes naturally to me.

I’ve focused mostly on SEO to grow the blog and now also want to focus more and more on my newsletter.

Hey Tom,

First off thank you for taking the time to get involved in this interview for my readers.

We first met on the digital marketing circuit at both the Chiang Mai SEO and Affiliate World Asia events in Thailand in 2018. Since then I have been following your blog (link) with interest.

You’re one of the few online marketing guys I know that has a family. So, I was intrigued by how your life compares to mine in juggling family life with the fluid world of internet marketing.

So, thanks again for Tom for spending time with me today, and let’s jump straight into this with our first question.

It would be great to get some background on where you’re from, your early life, studying, and career.

I grew up in Belgium, I have a Bachelor in Graphical & Digital Media, with a specialization in Multimedia production. Basically, anything from basic drawing, to design (both web and print), to 3D animation, special effects, video editing, and coding. Very broad.

My first real job was as a consultant in a global consultancy company, mainly doing flash animations and graphic design for the web. Figured I needed more of a human connection, so moved into sales, I earned a lot less money, but was a lot happier.

Then moved to Australia in 2011.

You used to work with client SEO and have agency (is this right?) but moved towards your own affiliate projects. What triggered the move?

So, to back up a bit. In 2012 I found this course on creating micro-niche sites with WordPress, rank them, and monetize them… I made so many that year and learned so much (even though most were smashed by Google updates, I was way too aggressive), that in 2013 I started a web design agency, ranked locally very quickly for all terms related to web design and SEO, got a lot of leads, used my sales experience to convert them, and grew from there.

But after a while, I found that agency life wasn’t really my thing, I probably had the wrong SOPs in place (if I even had any back then), or maybe I was charging too little.

But constantly having to re-educate every client, the constant emails and calls about their ranks dropping 1 position, the scope creep on web projects, etc.
I really wanted something else, I knew I could do more with my skills, work on my own stuff, instead of growing everybody else’s and barely getting anything back for it… but by that time it was 2014, I just had my first child, and we had bills to pay, so I really couldn’t find a quick way out, or didn’t know yet how to shift to something more passive.

That changed in 2016, so 2 years later, when I made another go of creating an affiliate site, I’ve had enough SEO experience now because of the client-work, I was way more confident that I could make it work. The big break came at the end of 2016 when I went to Chiang Mai, where Matt and a few others where speaking… this was before it even was a conference. I went with one of my best mates, Alex, to really just hear this Diggity dude talk, to chill, to network, etc.

Turns out the domain I was working on was way more powerful than I thought… people had to point it out to me… and then they gave me some tips, which I implemented immediately.

My earnings went from $500/mo before Chiang Mai, to $3k/mo when I got back from Chiang Mai… That really kicked me in the ass, so I built on that success, and grew it to around 30k/mo within 7 months.

Are you a solo affiliate or do you have a team? Do you see this changing in the future?

I’ve got 2 full-time writers at the moment (both of which mainly write for JV projects), and 1 full-time VA (who’s really really good). The rest are all contractors and services I tap into when needed.

I definitely want to add more full-timers as it forces me to come up with tasks for them… Can’t have them doing anything… sort of forces you to grow, otherwise you’re just throwing money away.

During your journey what resources (books, podcasts, blogs) have been a huge influence on the way?

Oh man, there are honestly so many.

Blogs/people:

• Diggity of course, keeps stuff up to date, def in his course the affiliate lab
• Charles Floate, until a year ago or so, wrote some really good posts, but he has gone a bit off the radar for a while I think
• Lionzeal way back in the day
• Daniel Cuttridge has good stuff on medium
• Kyle roof for on-page stuff
• The authority hacker crew
• The Traffic Think Tank community is super useful
• Glen Allsopp
• The ahrefs blog
• John Dykstra for how he does his kw research is pretty interesting
• James Dooley more for mindset stuff

And I’m probably missing a bunch.

Books:

• 4-hour work week (see Amazon)
• Company of one (see Amazon)

Podcasts:

In no specific order.

• Authority Hacker podcast
• The Doug Show
• Experts on the wire is ok
• The tropical MBA
• The side hustle show
• Noah Kagan presents is ok too
• Empire Flippers podcast
• Building online empires podcast
• Niche pursuits

Craig Campbell ones I haven’t really listened to yet but it’s on the to-do list.

[Adam – Nice, a few on there that I haven't checked out so thanks for that!]

You are one of the few affiliate marketing guys I know with a family. With a family, you can often get disruptions with holidays and sickness. Do you have a flexible work routine? What’s your typical day like?

Not going to lie, it’s tricky at times. There are disruptions that happen, holidays to book, kids get sick, Jess (wife) might get sick, generally sleep is an issue, lots can get in the way of work.

So, you have to be flexible. I have multiple to-do lists based on how much focus/energy I have. So, if we had a bad night and my mind is fuzzy, I do the simple stuff like accounting, ordering some links, running surfer audits, etc.

If my energy levels are good, I go for the harder stuff, KW research, build briefs for more complex tasks for my VA or contractors to handle, do interlinking audits, etc.

The ideal day is I wake up at 5.30-ish, Jess goes exercising, either cardio or Pilates, I look after the kids until she gets back, then she takes them to school and kindergarten, I get to the office around 8.30 or so, and if nothing goes wrong that day, I can work until 5-5.30 before going home, helping with the kids evening routine, watch an episode of some series, currently it’s “Man in the High Castle”, in bed by 9, then do it all again.

Weekends are generally off-limits workwise unless something goes really wrong with one of the projects.

So that would be the ideal schedule, if I can get a full week of that routine w/o issues, it’s a really good week and I’m a happy man when it comes to productivity.

Also, because a lot can get in the way, I need to be flexible with project deadlines I set for myself, and every time I put a date on a given task, I usually have a second date sort of in my mind in case something happens and I can’t get it done by date 1.

That being said, as the kids get older, it’s getting a lot easier. Fewer things happen, they get sick a lot less, are more independent. The first few years are definitely the hardest.

What’s big your biggest challenge and success working as a digital entrepreneur?

I think the biggest challenge is to continue keeping an eye on the future and where your specific marketing strategy or strategies are going. In my case, it’s mainly SEO, so I try to look ahead and map out where Google could possibly go in the years ahead and adjust accordingly… as much as that’s possible.

For example: As we’re moving to fewer and fewer people actually clicking on search results because Google provides more and more answers on their pages, I try to combat that by partnering with more companies that are subscription-based and give – as affiliate commissions – a % of that subscription cost for the life-time of the sign-ups or clients that you send them. That way you can build a recurring rev stream, and even if Google ends up sending less and less traffic, you’re still getting that recurring rev of the clients as long as they use that specific service.

As for the biggest success. Actually, pulling off the switch to full-time affiliate while supporting a family… that, looking back, I honestly can’t believe I did.

The freedom this business model gives is just amazing. Like I’m sending my wife to Singapore for a girl’s trip at the end of Feb, and I’ll stay and look after the kids… because affiliate income will keep coming even if I’m not working.

We’re going to New Zealand mid-year on a fam snow holiday. I’m heading to Chiang Mai mid-year for a co-working/chill week, and then again at the end of the year for the conference. I’ll probably plan in another trip around august too…. maybe the Empire Retreat in Phuket as I missed it last year. That freedom never gets old and it’s the primary motivator to keep scaling.

I am recently got into small mastermind groups to brainstorm and share ideas. Do you actively get involved in Masterminds or prefer to be a lone wolf?

I love masterminds, the Empire Retreat I just mentioned is a mastermind, I also go to the CMSEO one. If you know of more around SE-Asia, def let me know, they’re so valuable.

I’m definitely not a lone wolf, I have more JVs in the work than my own personal projects.

8. What actionable strategy have you followed that’s been a game-changer for you?

Snippets, anyone that knows me knows I like snippets, even after the de-duplication update, they still rock. If you know how snippets work, it honestly feels a bit like cheating.

All you need to do is get on the first page… you can be #8 organically and grab the snippet… and the difference in traffic of #8 compared to the snippet is obviously insane.

You can go from almost 0 traffic to 100s of visitors per day the moment you grab that snippet, depending on the target keyword of course… and then you use the money you’re getting from having that snippet to re-invest in links and push up the organic ranks of the page… in case you lose the snippet later, at least you won’t be sitting at #8 anymore, but maybe #2 or 3.

How do you see your business evolving in the next few years? Rinse and repeat whilst it works or looking to move into another space?

As long as SEO remains a viable strategy for affiliate marketing, I’ll keep going.

But I did start pushing more profits into non-digital marketing-related investments like index funds to slowly build up a net worth I can live off and/or pass on to my kids when they grow up.

So yeah, def rinse and repeat as long as it’s working.

Hey Melissa,

First off thank you for taking the time to get involved in this interview for my readers.

We first met at a Malaysian co-working space when I helped charge your MacBook. You soon then introduced me to the world of Instagram when you did a shout-out about my supplement, Supergreen Tonik.

I was terribly camera shy, but it came completely naturally to you. I soon realized why, as you work in modeling for a number of top brands as well as being a TV host.

Alongside your glamorous working life, you’re an advocate of zero waste and responsible consumerism where you promote re-using resources. I look forward to learning more about your many roles.

So, thanks again for Melissa for spending time with me today, and let’s jump straight into this with our first question.

It would be great to get some background on where you’re from, your early life, studying.

I grew up in Kuala Lumpur with modest beginnings, being taller than the average Malaysian meant years of laypersons telling me I should be a model.

I was good at math, so I went on to a degree in Actuarial Studies and finance while I harbored that dream, because try as I might, I couldn’t yet figure out how to make reasonable money from it.

I convinced the industry much later to accept me into their folds, haha, and then the money started to make sense. The right door finally opened up.

You have a career as a Malaysian Model and work with a number of top brands. How did you first get into modeling and what sort of brands do you tend to work with?

I tend to be risk-averse and kept working on a career in consulting while I “tried” to be a model. Eventually, time caught up and the dream kept getting smaller, with the oft-quoted perception that modeling favored youth.

Consulting honed certain soft skills in me – critical thinking, communication, how to reason, and build a case. Knowing when to be frank, when to weave it into a bit of storytelling.

I still threw my name in the hat every time I saw a modeling competition worth doing, despite it being almost laughable at my age at the time. I was getting aged out of most competitions already.

As a young girl growing up watching America’s Next Top Model, that was the mother-load. So, when they brought the franchise to Asia, I had three years left to go before I was aged out. I kept trying every year.

And in my very last year of eligibility at the ripe age of 27, it was that same frank honesty that got me the gig. My story connected with the story producers, and I got into Asia’s Next Top Model (“AsNTM”) representing Malaysia.

I left consulting for the competition and thankfully did not have to look back since. It was a calculated risk. I had a decent consulting CV under my belt, one that ensured I wouldn’t start at the bottom years after the modeling train ends. And it was a big enough door, that made the risk worth taking.

I ended up doing lots of commercial work apart from the fashion jobs I enjoyed as a working model – from airports to theme parks to fashion brands both local and international. Did placements in Singapore and Jakarta, before deciding to stop traveling and invest fully in Malaysia. It’s been a fun ride.

You’re very active and prominent on Instagram, more so than other social platforms. When and how did you get into this social platform?

ASNTM fans are very active on Instagram so it really began then. The moment I was on the show, it drew attention to me so since then it’s been about slowly growing the followers organically and having them stick around for your journey.

It has grown from a career as a budding model, the learning curve of going professional, the foray into being a host and producer, and then add a splash of acting for good measure. A person is usually constantly growing and it’s nice when people can watch it happen as a story, albeit a little filtered.

Over the years, it has evolved into building a platform to speak on issues that matter most to me, like the climate crisis, the zero-waste movement, and what individuals, businesses, and the government can do about it.

When I was younger, I wanted fame and fortune to do more to help create change (while still enjoying the actual fame and fortune as a credit to worthy accomplishments of course, not saying I’m a noble saint).

Right now, it may not be fame or fortune, but it is a following that is observing you. So, I might as well give them something that adds value – using my own #lowwaste lifestyle as an example and another learning curve they can follow and learn from as well, whether directly or indirectly.

You’re an eco-warrior at heart being a big advocate of zero-waste where you encourage sensible and sustainable consumerism. From purchasing groceries, responsible shopping to recycling, you promote this approach for sustainable living. Can you outline how you first got into eco-living?

I was always an eco-loving girl, this kid furiously recycling everything in sight. I did everything an eco-conscious person of that time would do and embraced the tagline ‘Reduce, Reuse, Recycle’. It hurt me to see the paper or a plastic bottle in the trash. Yet with stuff like plastic wrap and styrofoam, I had to put blinders on. I knew they weren’t recyclable so “what else could I do?”.

After all, almost every single thing you could buy was wrapped in plastic packaging. So, I just reduced where I could.

Then one day in early 2017, I learned that you could actually live zero waste. It was a choice.

I could REFUSE to create waste.

It all boiled down to very basic, intuitive ways that are guided by the intention to do as little harm to the environment as possible. So simple that I was dumbfounded, “Why didn’t I think of this before?” We as individuals don’t have to just accept the current situation as it is – we can say no, we can demand better practices, we can influence our communities and the businesses we frequent.

I learned you don’t have to buy into the vicious cycles of consumption, AND you can do it without being a hippie living off the grid. I kinda went off on a whole new trajectory since then, redesigning my life and my mindset consciously to one that is of much lower impact on the environment.

I wrote about my lightbulb moment on my blog here.

Many people haven’t heard of the zero-waste movement before, I included. Are you seeing brands taking note and changing their practices and/or messaging?

Sustainability and the push towards a circular economy have been a big topic in the last few years with the impacts of the climate crisis getting too severe to ignore. People are joining the dots now, but it is challenging with the current system and its players being very invested in not changing the status quo. But at every segment – individuals, communities, businesses, industries, lawmakers – the move towards sustainability is growing.

A lot of it has come down to awareness and joining the dots for people, which encourages people to question “the way things are”. From there, to seeing how it translates into action in communities and businesses has been exciting. A lot of times, it takes one individual who cares in any organization to spearhead new practices, get buy-in, and then get business-wide change implemented.

We have B-corp brands who champion sustainable practices, local homegrown brands that are building their business on the right foot from scratch sustainability-wise, but I also really want to celebrate all those incumbents with that “one passionate employee” who then influenced more in the organization and eventually the higher-ups to improve on existing practices.

What companies or brands are you finding taking the zero-waste approach?

I wouldn’t say #zerowaste because there isn’t true zero waste, but businesses that are working hard to close the loop and approaching circular economy.

There are many groundbreaking innovations and businesses offering solutions to close the loop.

If you mean a relatable consumer brand, I’m going to use one example – a clothing company that only sells timeless Tencel basics (not trend-based clothing) with Tencel being one of the most sustainable materials to produce, ships entirely in the paper, no tags or ‘future trash’ included, made in a factory with ethical working standards. Not #zerowaste per se but definitely took great lengths on everything they could think of to minimize environmental impact.

I was interested to discuss recycling and the use of plastics as I was looking at options for my supplement packaging. I wasn’t able to find a practical solution to storing and transporting my greens powder. Have you come across potential solutions that could be worth investigating?

I totally empathize with your predicament. It can be like finding a needle in a haystack, especially with finding a vendor that can cater to small businesses, the geographical challenges, etc.

I would say bioplastics could be an option (though their compostability can still be a question mark, but still relatively better than fossil fuel-based material).

Kraft paper would be an option but with a product like yours, it would still have the plastic lining inside (and if that can be a bioplastic, better) – but damning it to the non-recyclable pile because of that mixed material packaging.

Recycled plastic is a good alternative to not using virgin plastic – again possibly vendor MOQ issues on your part.

I’ve seen supplement companies sell loose by weight in bulk stores locally, which could be a good option to offer to consumers to refill their own containers with supplement powder albeit with limited reach i.e. only with zero-waste stores that have “refill” stations. But grocery chains are starting to look at providing bulk refill stations in the near future, so who’s to say we won’t get a wider refill network very soon.

It’s all relative. The point is to keep exploring new alternatives as a business to improve on what is currently being practiced, keep moving up the chain, keep lowering the environmental impact.

Many big brands are setting themselves sustainability goals each year, and that should be more common no matter the size of the business.

Do you see your personal and professional life going more towards zero-waste and sustainable ventures? Or are you keen to diversify your professional life?

Like many people, I have different facets to me. I don’t want all my eggs in one basket because I don’t think a person needs to just commit to one thing. I might get terribly bored.

So, I still have my hosting, my production work, my acting – all those different learning curves drive me just as much as my sustainable ventures do. They all bring different satisfactions and they are also nicely related in some way or another.

The host in me and the storytelling of my creative side helps in telling a compelling story for the environment. The producer's brain helps craft sustainable ventures.

Diversification for sure, but it all builds on each other.

What’s next for Melissa Tan, any big plans for 2020 and beyond?

I don’t have everything figured out, but I’m looking to initiate more sustainable projects in 2020. My overall goal is to play a role in the movement towards a more sustainable world – whether it’s speaking to individuals and communities, working with businesses, or being a part of the conversation with policymakers.

Hey Kevin,

We met in person only recently although we have been Facebook “friends” for several months now. It was a random met on the sidewalk in Chiang Mai as we were both in town for the annual SEO conference.

You’re a regular poster in an SEO Facebook Group that we are both are members of, you often post funny images and clips, even showing us your talents on the guitar (impressive by the way!).

Copywriting has always been a challenge for me and so finding out you're the copywriting guy meant it was too good a chance to ask you for this interview.

You’re very approachable and keen to offer help, even offering feedback on how I can improve my website copy. This is one of the reasons I wanted to interview you here and to also find out your story of how you got into copywriting in the first place.

So, thanks again Kevin for taking time to answer some questions today, let’s jump straight into the first one.

Can you give us some background on where you were born and spent time growing up?

Thanks for the awesome intro and for having me on your blog, Adam. We bumped into each other quite a bit randomly while you were in town. Always happy to help friends.

I was born and raised in Milford, Connecticut. Since most people have no clue where that is, it’s about an hour from New York City going East.

I grew up there, went to school in New Haven, then moved to Prague, Czech Republic to teach English.

Like me, you’re a big fan of South East Asia and spend a lot of time out here. When and where do you spend most of your time?

I love Southeast Asia. So happy I made the jump to move here from Europe. Can’t beat the food and cost of living.

I move around A LOT, but I’ve spent most of my time in Thailand up til now. But now I’ve got that awesome 1-year visa in Vietnam so I reckon most of my time will be spent down in Saigon or Da Nang.

I’ve spent extended time in Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, and the Philippines so far in SEA. Life is tough!

I recently read your blog where you help people become well-paid freelance copywriters. Your “my story” is absolutely hilarious and a testament to how good you are at telling a story (I am still recovering from your haircut photos). What got you first into being a freelance copywriter?

Thanks man. I do love storytelling, especially when it’s about me ;). I try to keep my story lighthearted and fun since the topic is pretty serious being so sick and all that.

I remember being an English teacher and just not being happy with it. There’s a real cap on earnings and I felt like I was wasting my talent.

I had a talent for storytelling and writing in general, just no idea how to monetize it. I have no degree and at the time no experience writing anything professionally.

I just googled “how to write from home” or something like that and stumbled on an article about how to make money writing “SEO articles”. Ya know, those 500-word fluff pieces trying to trick Google into ranking you for for “best plumber New York”, “plumber New York” “best plumber NYC” kinda stuff.

The rest is history!

I started doing better articles, writing on tougher topics, and eventually into copywriting. There’s a huge opportunity in this space, and that’s why I started Freelanceaholics.com. So many people want to write, but they have no idea where to get started or they’re stuck thinking they can’t make good money with it. That’s BS.

We talked about how you first got started as a copywriter. What would be your #1 tip for aspiring copywriters out there (other than signing up to your guide lol)?

Other than that, I’d say my #1 tip would be to read my blog!

Kidding…kind of.

The #1 tip would be to start a profile and look for jobs in Facebook groups.

There are a ton of freelance writing gigs available that require little to no experience and you could easily make $40-$50/hr entry-level if you’re any good.

What’s your process for getting started with a new client?

It depends on what they need from me, but most of my new clients now either need blog posts or Amazon listings, and those are obviously 2 vastly different projects.

For blogs, I normally try to get to know as much about the client and topic as possible, and that includes chatting with the owner/team members. From there, they usually give me the topics and I write drafts of the first blogs, and we bounce ideas back and forth until we get something we’re happy with.

Amazon listings are a different beast altogether and require SEO and competitor research. So let’s save that for another day ;).

You kindly took a look over this blog and my supplement brand offering some constructive feedback. Would you be game to outline some recommendations here?

From a birdseye view, I’d say:

LifeHacker Guy:

Better intros with more emotion and foreshadowing what the reader gains from reading the article.

Shorter, more concise sentences with less punctuation. Simple sentences > Complex ones for web content.

For example, Super greens and green powder supplements are marketed as energy-dense and a nutritious way of getting improving your health quickly -> Super greens and derived supplements are an energy-dense, nutritious way of improving your health quickly.

Allegedly! [For real – Adam]

I would also try to “spice it up” by adding in some more humor and addressing the audience directly with questions:

isn’t hard to get all your vitamins and minerals?

It’s impossible to count every single but of vitamin D, isn’t it?

Stuff like that.

Supergreen Tonik

Your home page is great, so the only thing I would improve would be some sentence structure.

Again, shorter and concise sentences. There’s also some awkward phrasing such as “easy tasty drink” and 1 run-on sentence!

Other than that it’s great though, very well targeted and benefits-driven.

The blog is also quite good and informative, but I would definitely recommend writing with more energy, stronger verbs, and fewer adverbs or adjectives. This creates punchier sentences and more engagement from readers. But since it’s written in your voice rather than a company’s voice, that might be tough to do.

That’s all I’ve got for now.

Check out for yourself and left me know = https://supergreentonik.com/

I bet you have faced the same issues when working with clients’ copy. What are the three biggest mistakes you consistently find when working with a client copy?

Bad intros – the intro is so important yet everyone screws it up. They state useless facts, they bore the reader, they tell the reader things they already know. It’s enough to make me want to smash my laptop.

Weak writing – writing with too many dependent clauses, passive voice, suggestions rather than imperatives, distancing. This stuff doesn’t sell. I can’t tell you how often I read sentences like “whether you need a great PC for gaming or just simply a PC for communicating with friends daily, this XYZ model computer is the computer for your needs”. See how hard that is to read? Yet that’s how the vast majority of content sounds.

Sounding too professional – I feel like most content reads like Sir David Attenborough narrating a nature documentary. “Behold, the elusive hiking boot. Notice it’s curved, it indelible style…it’s sheer power as it impressively meets the trail”. Nobody wants to read that stuff – unless it actually is Sir Attenborough. Then sign me up!

I know you offer a guide to getting started with freelance copywriting. But I am interested to discover if you believe good copywriters are born or bred?

Tough question to answer. I hate to say both, but I’m going to cop out and say this:

Good copywriters either have it or they don’t. I think you are born with the ability to be a good content/copywriter. Especially with content. With sales pages, you can at least learn formulas.

But from there, they’re bred. It’s not easy to stick with this career and reach the highest levels. I’m still climbing the ladder 5 years in!

How do you see your business evolving over the next 1-2 years? Do you see yourself scaling your business or do you prefer the route of solopreneur?

I see myself focusing more on info products and courses, then turning my focus to YouTube. I love writing and content writing, but I want to package my knowledge and experience into digital courses for solopreneurs, ecom stores, and affiliate SEOs. Then create courses and books for new freelancers as well.

I see a potentially symbiotic relationship between it all too. Almost like becoming a hub for writing. I can find and train new writers via books and courses and help them find jobs with companies. It’s a win-win for everyone.

My main message is “This is way easier than you think it is, and you can go from 0 to full-time income in a few short months or even less even from 0 experience.” I did and I can’t believe I waited so long to do it.

Thanks, Adam!

Hi Greg,

We first met at the Chiang Mai SEO conference a few years ago when you presented for Empire Flippers, a business that helps connect and broker the selling of online businesses. Every year since we have bumped into each other on the conference circuit.

You work for Empire Flippers one of the most popular online business brokers around that has helped buy and sell over $100 millions worth of businesses over the last few years.

I and my readers would be interested in knowing about your role at Empire Flippers and how you see the state of the buying and selling online business market today and the coming few years.

In preparation for this interview, I took a look at others you have done. I wanted to take a slightly different approach and to also focus on your lifestyle as this is what also fascinates me about online entrepreneurs.

So, thanks again Greg for taking the time today to answer these questions. Let’s jump straight in with question one.

It would be good to get a bit of background information on you. So, where are you from and what did you study?

I grew up in Alaska, born and raised. Where I come from you have three life choices you can make after high school. You can go to college, join the military, or get into the oil field. I’ve thought about college, at least in the USA, to always be primarily a scam for most people.

People who don't want to say that, who would want to say it was a bad idea they just spent $40k-100k+ on a degree to get a job where they never needed that degree? My friends always thought I was somewhat of an idiot for this, but I still hold pretty firmly to that belief all these years later.

There are GOOD degrees to get for certain industries, I just don’t think getting an overpriced info product is a good trade for most people.

There was a time I heavily considered joining the AirForce, but I grew up amongst the punk rocker crowd in Alaska, and therefore had a healthy disregard for authority. It’s not that I don’t listen, most of the time I do, but I only do if I think it is a good idea and typically don’t care what other people think if they disagree with me. So, that felt like a quick dishonorable discharge waiting to happen haha.

The only thing I had left was the oil field. I went into the field at 18 and worked for close to 10 years on oil rigs in the Arctic Circle six miles off the north coast. That show about ice road truckers? I worked with them all the time, and those guys are crazy lazy. Can’t tell you how many times had to freeze my ass off in -50 Celsius (-50 in celsius is actually the same as Fahrenheit at that point, but I like to use it to impress my European friends haha).

I also worked in the Gulf of Mexico offshore, even worked on the famous BP rig that would create a huge oil spill about a year or so before that event actually happened. I had friends on the rig when it happened. Later I would work in North Dakota on a bunch of land rigs which was probably the roughest oil field I ever worked from a pure safety perspective, people's perspective, and workload. It was 18 hour days 7 days per week, and if you took a day off that means you had gotten fired or quit.

I eventually got back to the Alaska oil fields. But I hated everything about it. I’m just not good with mechanics. I’m a smart guy, not in the academic sense considering I barely passed high school, but not that great when it comes to the blue-collar trades.

I wanted out. I always wanted out. I wanted out since I was in 8th grade and use to stay up late with my TV in my room blaring at 4 am with some guy on some infomercial selling me an eclectic mix of dreams revolving around no money down real estate, government secrets (the dude in the question mark suit, some of your audience might remember him), and random startup business franchises.

The normal life would never be me. I remember back then in middle school thinking to myself, I am the kind of guy that will probably end up incredibly wealthy in some fashion or I’ll be one of those poetic writers that struggled through life and lived in an awful kind of fiscal and spiritual mediocrity for wanting to try to be something more and always failing.

For a long time, I had accepted that the latter was my lot.

But then, as things do when the night waxes and begins to wane, my lot changed.

Throughout my oil career, I bought every course I can imagine. Scams, legit, didn’t matter. They’d tell me over and over “This course is only this many cups of coffee” and I would say, “You’re right” and buy and buy.

I racked up some great debt ironically, the same kind of debt I had tried to avoid skipping college!

In the end, though, all of that led me to what I foreshadowed above. My lot changed.

I’m now one of those guys that a lot of my friends consider an overnight success, but I know the horrors of that night, that night lasted for a solid decade. A long, long night indeed for my early life.

But that is the beauty of life.

Everything is negotiable. Even the harshest circumstances can bend and shift and change if you keep debating with it long enough.

You lead an interesting life that involves a fair amount of travel. I regularly see you in various exotic places around the globe. Where are you mostly based, and where do you spend your time during the year?

Funny enough, I actually hate traveling. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s awesome but I just prefer to live in one place for the majority of the year that is somewhere exotic and interesting and buzzing. If we could magically get rid of airports and planes and I could just teleport, then I’d probably like to travel again.

But… probably wouldn’t ever actually DO teleportation because of that old Star Trek theory of “is it really you that comes out on the other side of the teleport, or a copy of you?”

Probably an existential conversation to have over a few beers haha.

For the most part, I live in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam. I absolutely love Vietnam. The country has a haunting past that speaks to the tragic writer in me, and the people are iron-strong with their willpower and desire to become more than they were. It is a beautiful place, and economically speaking it is going nuts right now.

Outside of Asia, I recently got to visit Venice Italy, and while that is a way different vibe than the megacities out here in Asia. But, I absolutely loved it. I could see myself spending some solitary months with just myself and a notebook in that beautiful, weird city that shouldn’t be.

I remember a story from a few years ago when you had a particularly interesting night-out in South America (can’t remember where now). I believe you still have a few body souvenirs from the occasion. What happened?

Ah yes, my infamous Medellin Medallions. The story isn’t overly interesting other than the level of violence that happened in an otherwise pretty mundane scenario. I was out with a few friends and decided to go home. I went to the official taxi line up asking the first guy if he knew where my place was on google maps, he said no, went to the second guy and that guy said hop on in.

So, I did.

Then he took a wrong turn, made it sound like he was going to do a roundabout to fix the error, I thought nothing of it. Soon, we were careening down this alleyway at high speeds and just thought to myself… this probably is not going to end well for me as the buildings rocketed by my window.

He pulls into an industrial parking lot, jumps out of the driver seat, opens my door behind him, and just straight up goes to stabbing me in the shoulder. He could’ve easily killed me, my neck was just a few inches up, but think he thought I was a big guy and just wanted to make sure I wasn’t going to fight back. Not that I would’ve anyhow if he hadn’t started off that way, I’m not a big believer in physical fights of any kind solving much of anything.

Anyhow, he gets my phone and my wallet, and I’m left staring at him while bleeding on his seat. A bit of shellshock probably coursing through me as I ask,

So you said you know where my place was, can you at least drop me off there?

He looked a bit shocked, grabbed me by my shirt, and threw me out to the pavement before speeding off in his car.

I was left walking some pretty dark streets smoking a cigarette while bleeding out of my arm and wondering with some chagrin at how unrealistic it was that the Hound would survive Arya’s stab wounds in Game of Thrones. I judged this based on how much blood was coming out of me.

I found a taxi to a hospital, but since I didn’t have GPS with me I thought this guy was ALSO going to stab me so I offered him a cigarette to get me to the hospital safely.

Luckiest day of my life, it could’ve gone much, much worse.

I was actually in an Empire Flippers shirt when it happened. I had a flight to Bangkok the following day for a conference too. Flew all stitched up and since I didn’t know anyone at the conference, I figured my stabbed-up EF shirt would make for a good icebreaker.

I was right, I leveraged that into quite a bit of influential connections that eventually led to tens of thousands in media placement/mentions of us, podcast episodes, and now keynote speech in front of around 1,000 people coming up.

Always use the resources you have, eh? 🙂

You have been working at Empire Flippers for 3 years now. How did you first get involved with them and can you outline what you guys do and your role?

April will be 4 years for me!

I got involved because during that long night I mentioned earlier, I had given up on ever thinking I could start an online business and escape my quiet life of desperation. This bit of nihilism in me led me pretty bad burnout, but I had bills to pay and so I decided to just write articles for people.

I write fiction all the time, I’m a fast writer, and I knew I was desperate enough to break my cycle of credit card debt that I would undercut anyone to get ahead of it. That is when I started writing articles for a bunch of local SEO agencies across the USA, mainly sourcing the jobs from random Facebook groups. I knew quite a bit about SEO and one thing that holds true to this day all these years later is that SEOs absolutely hate writing good high-quality content.

My first jobs were PBN gigs, writing for their private blog networks for $0.01 per word. I was fast enough to get this up to an average of $20 per hour, and that led to bigger projects.

Eventually, I got a bit of my confidence back but lost none of the nihilism. One of my clients found out I was still working in the oil field and told me, “Man you’re doing this and that? I’d be so burned out if I was you…” and I told him, “Well, I’ve been burned out for years man. Doesn’t change the calculus of my bills.”

My spark of confidence led me to launch an affiliate site and go all-in. I’d work my 12-hour shift, then work 1-3 hours per day on the site writing all the content, keyword research, etc. you name it.

My plan was to sell it to these guys at Empire Flippers I’d heard about through Warrior Forum posts and other places, pay off what was left of the debt, quit my job, and just go live somewhere super cheap as a $1,000 per month freelance writer.

Obviously, that didn’t happen.

Instead, I joined their mailing list and saw the job role for an apprenticeship in content marketing. I put my hat in expecting to get denied like I’d been denied dozens of times at various agencies and marketing positions. But, turns out they liked me and I got the job 🙂

Fast forward almost four years and I’ve gone from apprentice to content manager to now the director of marketing. My role is very dynamic and there is a lot of moving pieces, but at the end of the day, I lead the marketing team in an effort to grow our brand reach, nurture trust in the market, and ultimately provide leads to our sales team.

We’re a 100% inbound organization, so this is a pretty vital role to keep our sales team fed with quality people to talk to every single day.

Recently, I’ve been growing the team and the brand’s thought leadership through a series of podcast shows and conference speaking engagements which will build into a few of the other big masterplans I got in the pipeline for 2020.

I have and still am a little risk-averse buying an existing online business. I know at Empire Flippers you guys aim to mitigate the risk by having a robust system in place to audit the business. Can you go over what sort of things you look for?

Every buyer needs to never forget about the risk that comes with investing in online businesses.

It can be incredibly successful, wild-aggressive ROIs, and there is no other investment like it on earth in my opinion. It also can mean you lose 100% of the money you invested in it. Online businesses are volatile, risky, and the reward does not come guaranteed.

Outside of that, I would say we offer the absolute best protections when it comes to buyers and sellers in our industry. At the very outset, we have an entire team dedicated to vetting a business to make sure it is a legitimate business earning real revenue and generating real traffic. Now, that shouldn’t be confused with replacing your due diligence. Vetting is just making sure things are correct, that doesn’t mean the business is correct for your skill sets or situation.

Our sales team will help guide you towards a business that is a good fit, and if we don’t think it is for you then we’ll be straight up with you and recommend for you to look at a different one. Obviously, we can’t stop you from buying the one you want if it goes against our recommendations, but we’re in it with you.

We have so many repeat buyers and sellers, it just wouldn’t make sense for us to give you anything other than our honest best advice. We want you to win so you’ll come back and buy again or even sell that business with us once you’ve improved it

Next is the actual migration. We have an entire team dedicated to this as well to make sure the business is transferred over properly. During this time we're holding the money you sent for purchasing while we transfer it over. Once everything is transferred we give you what is called the Inspection Period.

The Inspection Period gives you 14 days to review everything and make sure everything looks right. As long as the business isn’t showing less than 50% revenue or traffic, then it won’t fail the Inspection Period and during those 14 days, you’re earning the revenue from the business, not the seller.

Once that is past and you’ve given us the go-ahead, we release the funds to the seller and the brand business is all yours.

For anyone with an online business considering what it’s worth and keen to exit what recommendations do you suggest? This is both for preparing for a sale and helping with a clean transfer.

I would make sure your business has a clean profit and loss statement.

This is something surprisingly few entrepreneurs have and it’s a powerful document to show potential buyers. Now if you’re an affiliate or content site creator, usually your various affiliate and display advertising dashboards are going to have everything you need so you don’t need to create this document as much. For e-commerce, though it is powerful to have.

Also don’t try to increase your net profit for a higher valuation by firing people or cutting out essential systems.

There’s a fine line you need to walk in making sure the business is both profitable and attractive at the same time. If you’re making $10k per month and working 80 hours per week, which is far less attractive than a $5k per month business where the owner has built a team so they only have to work 2 hours per week.

Some people focus too much on the final valuation sales price instead of thinking about what a buyer really wants. A buyer is a type of investor after all, and very few want to buy a job.

Now, you can have a huge business where the owner is still working those kinds of hours and a buyer is fine with it because you’re building something really special. Alas, those are more the exception to the rule.

If you have any kind of special deals in places, such as special affiliate agreements or supplier relationships, you want to make sure those are all transferable. Paypal is a common culprit on this for recurring revenue businesses since Paypal can’t transfer the people on those invoices to a new Paypal account. You’d need to hand over your entire Paypal account to do that.

If you’re planning to go the private route instead of a broker, make sure you have ways to qualify a buyer’s intent. The last thing you want is to open up your books to a competitor that will just copy you. Verify the buyer’s identity, have a conversation on the phone, use things like an escrow service, and all that kind of stuff to make sure you’re safe.

If you’re using a broker like us at Empire Flippers, we basically do all of this for you. We’ll even build you the profit and loss statement for you to make sure it is clean and accurate.

For larger exits, or even small exits in the $100-200k range, we do offer exit planning services with our team of business analysts. These are completely free and they range from a simple 30-40 minute call to a monthly call for bigger businesses to make sure you’re hitting the various action milestones we’ll help you build to make sure you get the best possible exit for the business.

As you only offer quality online businesses for sale in your marketplace you must turn away some opportunities. What percentage of online businesses do you pass on and what advice do you offer the sellers?

Right now we turn away over a third of businesses that get submitted to us. For some monetizations like dropshipping, this percentage is actually much higher to ensure the quality of the business.

If you get turned away from us, usually it is because we feel the business is just not sustainable. As a seller, I’d focus on building a real brand no matter the monetization you’re working on. Buyers want something that can grow, but they also want something that has gotten some weight under it already and proven itself to be a moneymaker.

Very few digital entrepreneurs, unless it’s their personal blog, ever really focus on building a long-lasting brand and it’ll set you apart from the herd.

Outside of that, we’re very clear why a business is rejected so if you’re one of them, you’ll often have a roadmap of what you need to do in order to make that business sellable at a later date with us.

The selling multiples have rocketed the last year years and it’s not uncommon to see online businesses selling for 50x monthly net profit. Do you see this continuing and what factors may challenge this trend in the near future?

I would say 50x net monthly net profit valuation is still very aggressive.

Our State of the Industry Report analyzed 2017-2018 data across close to 500 businesses and the multiples were around 25x. In 2019, though this has gone up quite a bit, and it is not uncommon for us to see businesses being sold for 30-35x.

Unfortunately, I can’t give the exact number since we haven’t compiled that data yet. Our new refreshed State of the Industry Report in 2020 will show it though and compare it against the other two years.

I do think multiples will continue to go up as more money enters our space and drives up the demand. Though, the market is fragmented and larger than our marketplace shows. For every online entrepreneur with a content or e-commerce store or SaaS app that knows they can sell the business, it feels like there are a dozen others that don’t realize they can for a multitude of reasons.

I think the supply will continue to grow, but the rate of money is coming into the industry will likely lift the sails of all ships when it comes to the actual sales multiples we’re seeing.

We’re also starting to see several sellers of ours now becoming buyers. They’ve sold enough with us to bankroll a little war chest or fund themselves, and now are using the skills they used to build from scratch to acquire instead and grow the businesses for an eventual flip.

What’s next for you Greg and where do you see Empire Flippers in the next 1-2 years?

Ah, there are a ton of things coming down the pipeline.

We just launched our brand new marketplace that speeds up due diligence by a huge margin. That will eventually be replacing our public marketplace in full, hopefully in the coming weeks.

I am actively looking to grow my marketing team next year, with an emphasis on content creation. I’ve hired two this year and would like a whole sub-department dedicated to content as that has always been our strongest skill but the biggest bottleneck.

We have a few other initiatives that are all working in tandem. I can’t talk about them all just yet, but one piece of that puzzle is we’re working on a best-selling book that will likely come out near the end of 2020. Think Rich Dad Poor Dad meets The 4 Hour Workweek for buying and selling online businesses.

The book is just one ingredient though. This year I spent a heavy amount of time refreshing ALL of our marketing campaign funnels and getting them set up for the big stuff unveiling in 2020. Happy to say we’re almost there.

One example of our email funnel change is that at the end of Q4, anyone that fills out our valuation tool is going to get a custom email funnel based on their monetization. So they’ll only see content that is incredibly relevant to them and where they are and about their chosen business model.

Sounds simple enough, but marketing automation tools are great at making things sound simple haha.

The marketing plan I have for Empire Flippers, and what I believe we really can accomplish, won’t be done until five years from now.

At the end of that five years, the only competitors we will truly have in my opinion is the idea of investing in stocks or real estate.

I’m looking to help us enter that conversation with a third solution – investing in digital assets.

Hi Stephanie,

Thank you for taking the time to answer some questions from me today.

I have known you and your husband Alex for a few years now as you’re fellow expats living in Malaysia. We regularly chat about e-commerce and how to make money online from remote locations.

Recently you have been busy creating a fashion brand completely from scratch using your experience with wholesaling luxury brands from Europe to China.

As you know, I have been creating a supplement from scratch and so understand some of the processes behind this. Seeing you guys putting this together was fascinating and so wanting to share your story on my blog, possibly to inspire other readers to take action. So, let's jump into some questions.

Can you give our readers some background on where you are from and previous education and career?

I was born in Canton in China where I have spent most of my life. I studied in South China Agriculture University with a major in English Literature, the first year I was interested in arts and joined in with projects with fashion designers and photographers. You could say I first became interested in design then.

I got involved in the commercial aspects of shooting for fashion for two years but didn’t pursue it because of the difficulties of earning a living at this time.

After graduating I did quite a few jobs, most notably a Perfume trainer for P & G Prestige. I then moved to Hong Kong to work in retail consultancy for some luxury brands.

I left China in 2012 and moved to Malaysia with my husband. While living in Malaysia I got my MBA in Business and started a Fashion Consulting company in Hong Kong.

You have been based in Malaysia now for over six years, what made you move and make your base here?

I really like Penang as it reminds me a little of Hong Kong but is less developed, crowded, and a lot cheaper to live. The pace of life is slower and so much more relaxed, and still very well connected to cities in Asia.

Moving to Malaysia as an ex-pat can be straight forward although because I was from China it was a little more tricky.

Although I have thought on a few occasions I would move from Penang I always find that I return and enjoy the pace of life here.

You already have a business where you wholesale luxury brands from Europe to China. Can you outline how you got into this and how this works?

We went to a friend’s wedding in Paris in 2016 and when there we were invited to a Italian friend's fashion exhibition. He wanted to expand into the China market and asked if we could help him out as we had contacts there.

Interestingly at the same trade show, we were able to get two other clients who wanted the same service. Thus we were able to turn this idea into a new business model, in which we helped European brands expand into the Chinese market.

Considering the appetite for luxury brands in China and the size of the market, this seemed a very good opportunity.

How this works is different depending on the client. It could be that we act simply as a sole introduction agency, or that we actually wholesale the products directly.

With the recent geopolitical issues with the USA and China has your business or soon to be released fashion brand been adversely affected?

The short answer is no. Whenever disruption occurs there is also opportunity.

So tell us about your new fashion brand. Can you reveal the name? Who is aimed towards and what was your inspiration for creating it?

Yes, I can, we just launched two weeks ago at the Paris fashion week 2019.

The brand is called CherCher Design and we develop affordable luxury handbags and other leather goods.

The inspiration for the brand was created during a trans-oceanic trip from Martinique to South East Asia with my husband. Our website best explains with this quote:

Drawing inspiration, materials, and talent from nations and cultures across the globe. Chercher is the embodiment of the international ideals that define the modern community while paying homage and respect to the hopes, dreams, and elegant creation that have built our world.

It’s a young playful brand for people who like to travel and experience the joys of life.

Moving from promoting and managing other brands to creating and establishing your own is a big step. What made you want to take the challenge and take the risk of creating your own brand?

Yes, you absolutely right, our workload is ten times what it was 6-months ago. However, with no risk, there is a little reward, as your favorite comedy program says “he who dares, wins”. [classic]

We don’t really want to necessarily just sell handbags, we are fascinated with the dynamics behind creating a brand. Having worked for many years with dozens of luxury brands, we believe we have what it takes to transform our product into a global brand.

The mechanics of growing this brand, just like the journey across the ocean, is largely unknown and there are risks. But setting out into the unknown and conquering your fears is part of the adventure.

Both you and Alex have been working on your brand. I know from experience it’s a lot of work doing this sort of thing from scratch. How have you managed the workload between the two of you and have you enlisted outside help?

I am the designer whilst Alex manages the technical side.

Along the way, we have had issues, such as the factory where we were producing our products going out of business. What was first a headache also presented us with a great opportunity, and so we ended up purchasing the factory ourselves which enabled us to secure our supply chain.

This is a big deal, as intellectual property theft is a big problem in mainland China. So, by having our own factory we protect ourselves but also gain more freedom in design and quality control.

It also means that we have the responsibility for a larger number of staff, which has bought forward issues of corporate and social responsibility. Issues we wouldn’t have thought of at this stage of the business.

What’s the next step and the plan for the future?

Now that our first collection has been released our main focus is on marketing. We have a few non-traditional ideas that are going to be implemented in the next few months, so please stay tuned.

Hey Dino,

I first met at the Chiang Mai SEO conference a couple of years ago now. You were incredibly helpful with advice on getting started in paid traffic for a supplement brand I have developed, and so was keen to sit down and interview you.

Having first been introduced to you as Dino the “dude who doesn’t like suits” Gomez, it was good to understand why and now it's clear you're very much a beach dude!

Your agency and events have been going from strength to strength in the last few years, yet you always look so chilled out.

You’re a busy man to pin down, so thanks again Dino for taking the time to answer my questions – let’s jump straight into this with my first question.

Can you give us a little background about you? For example, where you’re from.

First off, it’s a pleasure to be a guest in your interview, Adam. Thanks for having me.

Well, originally I’m from my mom's belly but was born in Phoenix, Arizona. All terrible jokes aside… Since the age of 3, I’ve lived the majority of my life in San Diego, California. I've tried a few cold-weather states but it’s official I’ll always need to live near a beach.

Like many of us starting to work for ourselves, you wanted to get away from the 9 to 5 grind of office cubicle life. How did you first get started working online?

I was in my fourth year of college when I started planning my inevitable future escape from the 9-5 job. I wrote out a list of all the occupations where I would be able to work remotely on my own schedule.

As I did a ton of research it became fairly clear that there really weren’t many positions available with this type of job freedom.

That is when I realized I will probably need to develop an online marketing skillset or sorts.

So, I launched a WordPress blog around my favorite sport, basketball. It became my excuse to watch Sportscenter religiously so I could have topics and opinions on trending matters for which to write about. This is where I really started developing a skillset for social media marketing and SEO.

As my blog traffic grew, so did my passion and hunger for master online marketing. I began absorbing as much content as I could. John Chow was the first podcaster that I would play in my earbuds as I walked around campus in my last year.

After college, I used my experience with growing my blog traffic to earn a position as the director of marketing at a local ad agency. 3 months into cubicle life there I was already planning my escape. It was at the 6-month marker I put in my two weeks notice and took off to start my own agency.

From there, the adventure really began.

I believe you first started with SEO but these days you are known as the Facebook Ads guy (I see you all the time on my feed ;). What made you transition to FB?

I was 100% an SEO guy and very much enjoyed it the first 4 years as an agency owner. But around 2014 I adopted this understanding that the online marketing industry was always going to change quickly and consistently.

That is when I really began testing different platforms as a means to drive traffic and leads.

Sometime in 2015, I sold a few of our SEO clients on the idea of testing Facebook ads.

To my surprise and more so to my clients, Facebook ads blew our SEO results out of the water. The number of leads that our ads generated in just a matter of days compared to the number of SEO leads that required months of work wasn’t even close.

When those clients started asking me to increase our ad campaign budgets after just 1 week of testing, I knew this was going to be a huge platform.

From there I’ve been a 100% paid advertising advocate.

I have met you personally and know many people who have worked with you, so I know you’re the real deal. But opening FB these days we're bombarded with so many guys promoting themselves as “closers”. How do you stand out from what seems to be a crowded place?

The easiest way to stand out is with case studies, demonstrating a further understanding of various strategies, and simply having an outrageously larger quantity of testimonials. [Not kidding the number of testimonials on your Funnel Consultant Society is insane! I counted 28 video testimonials and 11 Facebook testimonials – Adam]

Since I was on the Facebook ads platform long before the rest, I kinda have an unfair advantage here.

With that said, I welcome the competition and respect everyone’s hustle. This industry is in its infancy and there’s plenty of resources, clients, and income to go around.

You also run the Funnel Consultant Society, where you help entrepreneurs, as well as digital agency owners, master Facebook advertising & high ticket client acquisition. Clearly this program works with the sheer number of testimonials you have. Can you explain more about the program?

Yes! I’m beyond pumped about what our team and tribe have done with the Funnel Consultant Society. It’s truly been blood, sweat, and tears to create the type of program that FCS has become.

In short, Funnel Consultant Society is our flagship mentorship program that helps entrepreneurs and agency owners to add 5-6 figures to their business utilizing the latest Facebook advertising strategies.

We have over 800 members now are and growing very rapidly and as you mentioned, are quite proud of the 100’s of testimonials we have received!

The members are simply awesome to work with day in and day out and become kickass marketers. It’s insane to see their progression just over the initial first few weeks and to hear how much the program and community are impacting their lives completely.

Then there’s the coaching staff to thank that hustles consistently to ensure each of our members has all of their questions answered, is up to date with cutting edge strategies, and supported on weekly calls.

But perhaps the best part is the live events where the entire tribe gets a chance to hang out, share new campaigns, funnels, and ads, and otherwise enjoy drinking together. Entrepreneurship can be a lonely road at times which is why we love hosting events for our group to meet in person. That is where the magic really happens! Our recent San Diego event was a blast.

I think we’ll see this group grow to 2000 members by the end of 2020.

Your recent Funnel Consultant Society live event in San Diego

Do you still work directly with clients are do you mostly teach?

Good question.

Our agency still manages a large pool of client campaigns. Everything from local businesses to large brand name clients. I’ve always felt the best way to lead is by example s without our client campaigns, I feel we would lose our competitive advantage to lead our members in FCS.

Like many guys moving from SEO to e-commerce, I am new to paid traffic and FB marketing. What would you say is the best way to gain traction with FB Ads for a brand with a $10k budget?

The first thing I would do before running any paid traffic to an ecomm store would be to optimize the up-sells, cross-sells, followup emails, and the checkout process. You’ll want to maximize average order value as much as possible before sending paid traffic there. This allows you to spend more on the acquisition of a new customer and potentially outspend your competitors.

When you’re store is complete with testimonials, secure checkout, reviews, great messaging, and you have feedback on the user experience, then I would start with a small advertising budget of $10/day.

In particular, if you have any traffic to your ecomm store, I would start primarily with retargeting ads and dial these in. You need to get your retargeting ads profitable first (this would be your warm audience) before thinking about cold traffic. If your warm audience isn’t converting… then you’ll struggle with your cold audience.

With your retargeting ads in place & profitable, I would budget $1000 in the first month to acquire new customers with cold traffic. If you have a list of current customers you can use this list to build a lookalike audience for which to run ads. I would also test ads against various “interest-based” audiences that are related to “healthy eating” and or “entrepreneurship” in the case of a superfood & brainpower food brand.

The key is to test heavy and fast in the first few weeks so that you can have the data back quickly as to which audiences/ ads/ and ad angles are working best. Then you can optimize from there.

I would aim to discover your winning ads, audiences, and ad angles within spending your first $2,000. If you are near breakeven after 2k of ad spend then you are going to have great potential to scale considering the average lifetime value of a customer and return purchases.

A 10k budget gives you a nice runway to acquire new customers from ads, deliver a great product, and have them come back as return buyers. You should watch your cash flow carefully and calculate your LTV so you know the profitability of your campaigns and when you will break even or otherwise profit from the acquisition of new customers.

Soon you will be jetting off to Bali for your Tropics Mastermind. This looks awesome and wishes I could make it (to many “business” trips away this year!). What is this event about?

The Tropics Mastermind event is something I’m very excited about. It will be our first event hosted in Bali, Indonesia this November.

This is an extension of the accelerator events we host for members of Funnel Consultant Society and is an opportunity for the coaches and myself to work very closely with a few select members. The goal of these events is to add another layer of coaching to those agency owners who want to grow their business even faster and is a chance for our community to have a ton of fun in a tropical setting.

Tropics Mastermind Event November 2019

I'd like to Mastermind in Bali with Dino!

What’s in store for you going forward? Do you see yourself concentrating on FB or do any other platforms interest you? How do you see your business developing over the next 1-2 years?

Over the next 2 years, I see our team continuing to build out the Funnel Consultant Society in order to serve new entrepreneurs and agency owners who are looking to grow their business with social media advertising.

We have been extensively testing several other paid advertising platforms and are seeing great success so our strategies & findings will soon be added to FCS for our members to capitalize on.

In short, we will always continue to grow FCS as our goal is to have it be the last paid advertising program anyone would ever need.

We also have great insight as to the opportunities that FB ads will present in the future. I’m predicting advertising in virtual reality very soon and want our students and agency owners to be prepared for the opportunity that will present.

A lot of exciting things are coming down the road!

Hi Joel,

First off thank you for taking the time to get involved in this interview for our readers.

We only recently met as we both work in the same co-working space in Malaysia and discovered you spent a large part of your life living in London.

We recently sat down to discuss more on your company CommonRoot and how you work with big brands to help with their cultural communication. You kindly outlined your process and how effective this can be in identifying the cultural considerations and shifts when communicating brand messages.

I have recently developed my own greens brand and as to be expected I never went into the deep level of research you do with each of your clients. The cultural insights you highlight are fascinating and I can see the value of the service you offer to global brands.

So, I thought it would be of interest to readers here looking to understand what you do and why. Thanks again Joel – let’s jump straight into this with my first question.

Can you give us a little background information on you? For example, where you’re from and places, you have lived.

First of all, thank you for inviting me to interview – and for your compliments on my work!

As you said, I spent a lot of my life in London, having grown up there. My dad is originally from Brussels, though, and my mum is from here in Penang, so we would travel to visit family in both places whenever we could. I grew up aware that London and the UK were only one part of my story, and only one part of the world, and so was always interested in trying to understand the rest of the story.

I ended up studying languages, literature, and culture, and ultimately I found myself moving to live, work or study in different places: from France and Germany to Singapore, China, and Brazil.

You have lived in several countries, what brings you back to Malaysia and why do you see yourself staying here for some time?

I had loved living in São Paulo in Brazil, but after a few years, I started yearning for the feeling of having deep family roots in a place. Actually, I’d never really had this in the UK either, despite having grown up there, so I turned towards Malaysia and above all Penang, where I have almost the opposite problem – too much family!

I started making connections of my own here, and soon enough I started focusing on Malaysia and the region in my consultancy work.

I feel that Southeast Asia and, to be honest, Asia, in general, is often misunderstood and misrepresented in the West, and I would like to do what little I can to change this, especially at a time when the political gaps between different cultures seem to be widening around the world.

I think that Malaysia at its best provides a model for how different cultures can build something solid together and that this is more valuable than ever right now.

Your company CommonRoot works with brands looking to communicate effectively their message in different markets. This is a very niche market you work in; how did you get into this?

It’s a cliché to say, but I do think much of my life has brought me here.

With my mixed background, I was always trying to understand how to communicate between different cultural viewpoints: whether it be simply between my parents, or between whole nations in international politics. This type of communication shapes our world.

Language is one aspect of it, but also visual and non-verbal communication, and the different perspectives and worldviews that these all contain. Brand communication is a huge part of this as well – we’re surrounded by messages every day from brands trying to get our attention.

So my multicultural background and my language studies were the foundation, and then after my master’s degree, I went into market research, doing interviews and focus groups. I actually hadn’t known that my field of cultural research and cultural insight was an option in the industry, as it is very niche as you say, but I was approached by one of the few specialists in the field at the time and it made perfect sense to me as soon as I got into it.

To the layperson how would you describe what you do, part of your process, and why it’s crucial for brands looking to break into new markets?

As I said, we are surrounded by brands almost everywhere we go these days, and they’re all trying to get our attention. But what too many brands forget is that we are surrounded by other things as well: politics, religion, history, family and social norms, science and technology, art and design, movies, music, and pop culture…

Everything we see and hear around us affects the way we listen to what brands are saying to us, and brands need to respond and adapt to this constantly changing cultural environment if they want us to react to them positively.

For example, if I’m a manufacturer of plastic straws in the 1970s, or if I’m the same manufacturer of plastic straws in 2019, then I will discover that my cultural environment makes a difference to my sales even if my product and messaging remains the same.

So my process is basically looking at the ways that different cultural environments communicate around issues that are relevant to a particular brand, seeing how these are changing, and recommending how brands can keep their own communication in line with this. This is obviously relevant if you’re a big global brand trying to sell something in different markets around the world, each with its own cultural environment, but it’s just as relevant if you’re only dealing with a single market too.

What is the biggest mistake you see brands making when developing their products and services?

Apart from not coming to me first…?

Well, I think it would be not putting themselves in the real-life shoes of their consumers. There are too many brands who get caught up in their own hype, or their own cultural assumptions, or their own ‘disruptive innovations’, ‘new normals’, or ‘digital futures’, and forget about what people actually need and use in everyday life.

There’s so much talk about the need to disrupt, or to ‘innovate or die’, or ‘move fast and break things’, but I saw a study by Nielsen last year that said about 80–85% of new FMCG product innovations fail within a few years.

That’s a lot of wasted budget on this total faith in innovation.

At the same time, people are still buying books, candles, bar soap, postage stamps, or vinyl records, and there are solid cultural reasons for all of these purchases.

I can see that any company looking to identify market opportunities or even to break into new ones could use your services. What size companies do you work with?

I work with all sizes of brands from all kinds of different industries, and the variety is one of the things I really enjoy about my work. I work with multinationals such as Unilever and Diageo, but also with smaller brands, from private jet makers to glass manufacturers.

I make an effort to work for charities and NGOs too, from the International Committee of the Red Cross to Transparency International.

I know you have worked with some big well-known brands. What have been your biggest successes with brands you have worked with?

A lot of my work takes place behind the scenes in the research and strategy phase, so I can’t always point to a visible result. When I do have the chance to work with designers and directly help shape the finished product, it’s doubly rewarding.

One of the logos I see most often that I was involved in a while back is the Chivas Regal logo. There were different design options on the table for this new icon and I helped understand how each of them worked across the different cultural environments of key markets, from the US to China and Brazil.

I also worked with Facebook a few years ago to understand holidays and occasions like Mid-Autumn Festival, Ramadan, or International Women’s Day across Southeast Asia. From there they created greetings that appeared on millions of people’s feeds.

We briefly discussed how you see your company growing in the next few years. What is your vision for CommonRoot and how do you see your role changed as you scale your company?

At the moment the consultancy is centered on me, working with a network of local partners and specialists in other disciplines.

It’s independent and flexible, but in the future, I would like to grow it into more of a self-sustaining business and am always looking to meet other culturally minded people interested in this approach to brands.

I love the actual work, but if the consultancy does grow then I’d be very happy to take on a role where I can advocate for this cultural approach more concertedly.

We briefly mentioned the market I am in with my Super Greens supplement. Would you be up for producing a mini report on this?

Absolutely.

I think functional foods are a really interesting and emergent area at the moment and one which is trying to work out how to position and communicate itself. Some brands seem to be communicating around delivering all the benefits of fresh and wholesome natural eating; others talk about enhancing your life in a high-tech way, and others use the language of performance and bodybuilding.

So it would be interesting to try and understand which approach has the most relevance to Super Greens and help you grow!

Hi Bart,

First off thank you for taking the time to get involved in this interview for our readers.

We had a somewhat random meet up in a local shopping mall with our kids playing together, and we got chatting and soon realized we were in a similar position being Malaysian expats who work online.

After exchanging phone numbers we met up in a local co-working space where we spend time working on our businesses. We regularly catch up over coffee and dinner and recently discovered just how small the world is as we have a mutual friend – Mike from Global From Asia

Your business is based in China and you supply customers around the world. I am keen to understand a bit more about what you do and how you ended up in Malaysia!

So, thanks again Bart – let’s jump straight into this with my first question.

I have never met so many Dutch people, there really seems to be a lot of you guys in Malaysia. Can you give us a little background information on you? For example, where you’re from.

Well, Malaysia is a good place to be, so it’s no wonder so many Europeans in general, moving and staying here. Penang’s always been a trading port with a lot of development and opportunities, which attracts Foreign professionals.

The Dutch specifically have always been an adventurous people, looking for a trade, opportunities, etc. I guess that’s one of the reasons why so many of us are here.

I am originally from a very small city in the Netherlands (Hindeloopen), but we moved here from Shenzhen, an extremely large city in China. This is also where my company is based. The reason we moved to Penang is to relax and start planning early retirement😊

Location-independent work gives greater flexibility on where you settle. You have only recently moved to Malaysia (6 months now I think), but what made you decide to up and move to Malaysia with your family?

Since mid-June, so only 3 months so far.

We are very fortunate in the way our company is set up. We have highly motivated colleagues on the ground in China, who enable me to work remotely. Settling in Malaysia feels good, it’s a pleasant, family-friendly country in South East Asia.

My wife’s Malaysian, and we have been coming here very often, which makes it easier to re-locate here.

But the number one reason is our son, who had to start school. The environment here is great for kids (at least Penang is), plus the level of education in Malaysia is good. Which compared to where we used to live (a busy, crowded, expensive, and polluted city) is a huge improvement.

Your business is based in China, CardImpulz, which manufactures plastic cards anything from membership, photo ID to smart cards. How did you first get into this line of work?

The city of Shenzhen is a very special city; it’s been the world’s factory for years. When I first arrived as a Hotel management trainee in 2006, I worked in a hotel where I got the opportunity to meet so many different guests, who all worked for/at interesting companies/industries.

Business professionals who all had a story to tell, managed big departments, or their own company. So, when my contract at the hotel finished, I was hired by one of these professionals, who then gave me the opportunity to start on my own 2 years later.

It’s popular now to think of remote working and business running on a 4-hour week. How do you find running your business remotely and how hands-on are you with the business?

I do not think 4 hr working week is realistic in my line of work.

Our customers are located worldwide, and many of their projects require fast responses. So even though my working hours are flexible, I am always working.

I personally still check every single order placed with us before and after production.

I find it interesting that remote working and online businesses can be very flexible in terms of working hours. Yet, I like to have a routine and I know you do too.

Exactly, humans need a routine, especially when you have a family, own a business, and are relocating to another country. So now we’re settled down, and all the personal and family cases have been taken care of, I can focus more on the business again.

The most popular products you handle involve contactless or RFID cards. With the rise of contactless (NFC) via smartphones do you think this poses a challenge to smart cards in the future?

Yes, it does. But it also offers opportunities. The NFC function in your smartphone is actually a smart card reader. NFC smart cards (or tags, fobs, wristbands, etc.) could, therefore, become a sophisticated tool for companies to interact with customers.

I see that you do environmental (green) cards. Have you seen a big uptake from companies looking to be more thoughtful on plastic usage?

Slightly, although the price for non-plastic cards is often still too much for customers. There are alternatives available made by corn or potato starch, however, the cost compared to standard PVC plastics is still too high.

We are however developing a product line of cards using durable paper.

The contactless technology you work with is incredibly versatile and seems like the options are limitless. What has been your most difficult order or most unusual in terms of design or functionality?

We supply the access control cards to a well-known international racing federation, which every season hosts multiple races worldwide. Each individual race needs thousands of cards divided over many different designs (access cards, staff, VIP, press, etc.).

Each card is unique with dedicated encoding, allowing access to all or part of that specific race premises. Starting this job up every year is a bit of work, and it definitely was a challenge the first time we did it.

Besides those projects, we produce ID cards for several countries that require a great level of confidentiality and security. Not only in production but also during pre-production and shipping to our customers.

So, what’s next for your business, any projects on the boil that you can discuss here?

We are developing our own new and innovative NFC solutions, which will appeal to individual consumers and businesses directly. The possibilities with NFC are almost limitless, there’s not an industry for which you cannot develop a solution.

Our own products are being designed at the moment; the target is to release these together with the new website by the end of this year.